I agree with Pero-chann,

Senpai has no english equiv, and it IS used for those who are your upperclassmen/women. Also it is someone whom you are associated with. So say you go to the Judo club, then someone who is in a higher class, and in the judo club is YOUR senpai.

And I believe Pero-chann is right on the dot with the usages of shortened names.....CHOU KAWAIIII........and familiarity of course.

*grins* tata for now

pero-chann wrote:

gohmifune wrote: But what about the shortening of names, are their any rules to that? I've never heard Ryousuke-chan, but rather Ryou-chan. I think you use shorter name if you know that person really well. In Anime, most of characters have deep relationship or relationship since they were kids and refer them in a shorter name. And most of the time, it is the girl who likes to call her guy friends shorter names for been cute!

Yeah, like in Salary Man Kintaro, all the girls and the guys in the office (except his superiors) call him Kin-chan.

Errr...pardon me if i'm wrong but Ryaltheyre, u said dat Senpai have no equivalent in english..but isn't the meaning of senpai is Senior in english or qian bei in chinese?
well..forgot to tell u all dat i'm new around here...dozo yoroshiku ne..

Dark^3nforc3r wrote:

Errr...pardon me if i'm wrong but Ryaltheyre, u said dat Senpai have no equivalent in english..but isn't the meaning of senpai is Senior in english or qian bei in chinese? well..forgot to tell u all dat i'm new around here...dozo yoroshiku ne..

Welcome dude, hope you have a great time here, I know most of us do. As far as senpai equivalent here, you are correct about senior, but I don't know of ANYBODY calling anyone "senior".
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You are right it does mean senior, or upperclassman. However it also isnt just any upperclassmen, it is someone you specifically have a relation to, ie: going to the same club after school, maybe even doing something together that isnt related to the school, for instance say your mother and her friend do folk singing together and an upperclassman from your school sometimes goes with their mom (your mother's friend), and you go sometimes too. You talk with each other there, then at school you could call that person Senpai...however it is not much used in that way. So you ARE correct that there is a literal translation, but like most literal translations it doesnt touch the connotations of the word, or saying...

oh i see....
seems dat there is still a lot for me to learn..
thx anyway...

There is still a lot for all of us to learn, especially me. I found that on my trip to Japan, I did not know half enough that I needed to know. I know more now...but still it is not enough.

arashinokoto wrote:

there's lots of ways of saying thanks in japanese.. [writing the words with lots of [u]s like in hiragana.. ] doumo doumo arigatou doumo arigatou gozaimasu doumo arigatou gozaimashita arigatou arigatou gozaimasu arigatou gozaimashita.. i have heard all of them being used.. each is used in different situations.. to different [classes] of people..

FYI, about 1,000 years ago the word "arigatou" did not exist in the Japanese language. Some linguists have theorized--most likely correctly--that after trading relationship began with the Portuguese in the 18th century, the Japanese began using the Portuguese word for thank you "obrigado", and it eventually currupted into present day "arigato."

As proof, no Kanji exists for "Arigatou". Occasionally, the adjective "Arigatai" is written with a Kanji for "aru" (there exists) and one for "katai" (hardness); however, this is purely contrived, as "hardness exists" has nothing whatsoever to do with gratitude.

The Japanese word for gratitude is "kansha", made up of two Kanji "kan" and "sha". BTW, this Kanji for "Sha" is the same Kanji as "She" in the Mandarin "She she nee" (thank you).

Sometimes guys are called 'chan' too among friends, in a jokey manner.

Very confusing I know, then their are other forms of address such as dropping the 'san' and addressing someone using their name followed by their job title such as:

Sato Kacho / Shacho (Department head, president) etc

A shacho will often be referred to as Shacho even after retirement.

Then there is the intricacies of not referring to someone as 'san' within your in group, for example someone phones by office looking for Mr. Sato, I reply that Sato is not in the office. The San is elminated as Mr. Sato is part of your in group. You would not refer to yourself as san, neither would you refer to your co-worker as 'Mr' when someone outside your group refers to them.

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A question came up before, "how do you address someone in japanese?" and i hope this article provide a little more insight: Click on the above pictures and it will take you to a good lowdown on how to address someone properly.

Quote:

Everyone knows -san. In Japanese, you must attach a suffix to someone's name unless you're very close friends, and san is the most basic. Sama is actually where san came from, but people got lazy in the pronunciation centuries ago. This is where chan came from, as a baby pronunciation of san. Keep in mind how diminuitive this is when you use it. Any adolescent boy or older is going to get very upset if you use chan with their names. It is correct that kun can only be attached to boy's names. However, kun implies one of two things: 1) the person is very close to you, as in you've grown up with them, or they're your boyfriend, etc. Or 2), They are significantly below you in social standing.

Happy learning.
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this is what my japanese friend told me when i asked her bout the suffixes

san=unisex, for everyone its a polite way of calling surnames.......e.g kamenashi! sounds really demamding and bossy, but kamenashi-san! sounds, polite

kun=just for guys, mostly gurls use it to call guys that are not that close.....like not close enough to call them by just their name eg: calling jin, is really.....close, but jin-kun, is not so close, and its also polite

chan=only used for gurls same for the kun, but girl ver.
there are so many types because......like as you know, japanese ppl are really polite so they just cant call people by their names if they are not really good friends or sth....so they tend to used these
really close friends dont use these "kun,chan" thing

I'm sure this topic has come up many, many times before - but kun is not just for guys.

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%B7%AF&kind=jn&mode=0&base=21

It is more often used for guys - but it's really not that unusual to be used with women given the correct context.

Kun can be used after a woman's name (probably last name) in a work/business setting.

niko2x wrote:

I've always thought that "-sama" was used for someone that you consider above you in status, such as a mentor, no matter the age difference.

For example, in the anime Ai Yori Aoshi, Aoi Sakuraba is a little younger than Kaoru Hanabishi. Because she's so much in love with him and respects him, she addresses him as Kaoru-sama.

--- groink

groink wrote:

I've always thought that "-sama" was used for someone that you consider above you in status, such as a mentor, no matter the age difference. For example, in the anime Ai Yori Aoshi, Aoi Sakuraba is a little younger than Kaoru Hanabishi. Because she's so much in love with him and respects him, she addresses him as Kaoru-sama. --- groink

It's more like for someone you worship or hold in really REALLY high regard, it's not commonly used in real life with just friends or anything like that, so it seems to me, lol. Someone above you in age or that you don't know well generally would be "san". A mentor or someone older than you in school or work could probably be "senpai". In my opinion it's safest to fall back on "san". It's polite without going overboard.

In cases where "sama" is used commonly:

Kami-sama (God)
Okyaku-sama (guest/visitor/customer...said by shopkeepers)

KouSeiya315 wrote:

Okyaku-sama (guest/visitor/customer...said by shopkeepers)

Just to add something to this. Customers hold it in high regard if you called them by their surname + sama. (That is, if you know or can obtain their surname) Don't get me wrong, Okyaku-sama is held in high regard, but if you know the customer's surname, it should be an automatic transition to using it rather than okyaku.
Just my two cents from prior experience.
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ahochaude wrote:

Customers hold it in high regard if you called them by their surname + sama. Don't get me wrong, Okyaku-sama is held in high regard, but if you know the customer's surname, it should be an automatic transition to using it rather than okyaku. Just my two cents from prior experience.

is this from an english speaking customer or JPNese speaking customer at work? Either customer, i think it would work more if you know the surname. makes you more 'personal' to the client.

niko2x wrote:

is this from an english speaking customer or JPNese speaking customer at work? Either customer, i think it would work more if you know the surname. makes you more 'personal' to the client.

Both. But (according to my experiences) Japanese customers would expect the name address more than an American customer would.
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When it comes to name suffixes, I just use -san unless they tell me otherwise or I know the right suffix (for example I know to use sensei instead of san with my teacher). I found that it was a nice,safe way to go about it.

PaulTB wrote:

- but kun is not just for guys.

i agree 70% that's what i learned that its not just for boys.... but then again i am someone who took japanese for four years and came out of it dumb-as-a-rock so i think i should be automaticaly dissqualified from stuff like these =X

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