After seeing Kuwano build that plastic model of the Titanic, I wanna get back to my backlog of plastic car models that I have to build...

bmwracer wrote:

I didn't find Kuninaka Ryoko's character very interesting other than being a plot point... Her dog had more of an influence on the character than she did.

Without Ryoko this drama would have been a flat zero. Her interpretation of the simple minded young OL was right on target and she was the perfect offset to the patient and the doctor. She was the pepper that bought out the flavor of the drama.
How boring it would have been if she did not jump against the wall when Abe was blasting the stereo... or when the doctor overheard her talking about her in the cubicle.... it instantly bought the doctor's character to life.
And her perfect facial expressions as a staright man, for instance the blase look as she mourned loosing her boy friend and then taking the next piece of cake... and her stony forward stare in the elevator with Ken chan and Abe after making a faut pas (more than once). Absolutely essential to the construction of this drama from ho hum to masterpieice.

For me this drama was an 11/10 with incredibly perfect casting into a homogenuous intereacting group.

ralphm1999 wrote:

Without Ryoko this drama would have been a flat zero. Her interpretation of the simple minded young OL was right on target and she was the perfect offset to the patient and the doctor. She was the pepper that bought out the flavor of the drama. How boring it would have been if she did not jump against the wall when Abe was blasting the stereo... or when the doctor overheard her talking about her in the cubicle.... it instantly bought the doctor's character to life. And her perfect facial expressions as a staright man, for instance the blase look as she mourned loosing her boy friend and then taking the next piece of cake... and her stony forward stare in the elevator with Ken chan and Abe after making a faut pas (more than once). Absolutely essential to the construction of this drama from ho hum to masterpieice. For me this drama was an 11/10 with incredibly perfect casting into a homogenuous intereacting group.

Well put ralphm!

Wynter wrote:

LOVE Reiko-san. I've seen in about 3-4 dramas, and each time she's brilliant. She really knows how to carry her character. Not to mention she was the best dressed female in the show.

You got that right! In this series she was my kind-of-woman; strong yet feminine, cool, confident, stylish and level headed.

You guys are sounding like all those fangirls who are all ga-ga about Gokusen because Matsujun is a co-star in the drama...

Abe Hiroshi's great performance is what drives this drama, not Kuninaka Ryoko, Takashima Reiko, or Natsukawa Yui... Without him and him alone, this drama would be pretty much worthless... The story revolves around him and his social ineptitude, not the others... You're giving an overzealous amount of credit to the supporting players.

bmwracer wrote:

You guys are sounding like all those fangirls who are all ga-ga about Gokusen because Matsujun is a co-star in the drama... Abe Hiroshi's great performance is what drives this drama, not Kuninaka Ryoko, Takashima Reiko, or Natsukawa Yui... Without him and him alone, this drama would be pretty much worthless... The story revolves around him and his social ineptitude, not the others... You're giving an overzealous amount of credit to the supporting players.

Hmmm no I don't think that is it exactly. We are giving credit to one or two of the other characters in this series whose performances spoke to us. I truly admired Abe Hiroshi's masterful performance in it, but that doesn't diminish my praise of a few other actors who made this series the fine ensemble piece it was. All in all this series was very well cast and very well performed. We are just showering some praise on the actresses whose performances touched us the most, that's all. Aaah go on and let us gush a little bit would ya b-kun.

Loved this series! Abe Hiroshi did an outstanding job, but what made his peformance enjoyable was the supporting role of Natsukawa Yui as Hayasaka-san. Natsukawa Yui is just so kawaii and sweet in this show, and her acting with her various facial expressions and change of voice was superb and was a perfect counter to Kuwano's cynicism.

bmwracer wrote:

You guys are sounding like all those fangirls who are all ga-ga about Gokusen because Matsujun is a co-star in the drama... Abe Hiroshi's great performance is what drives this drama, not Kuninaka Ryoko, Takashima Reiko, or Natsukawa Yui... Without him and him alone, this drama would be pretty much worthless... The story revolves around him and his social ineptitude, not the others... You're giving an overzealous amount of credit to the supporting players.

Well, I wished there were more Kuninaka Ryoko fanboys. Her official thread's been pretty much dead for quite sometime now.

There's no doubt that Abe Hiroshi is the star of this show. But then again, if it wasn't for the supporting cast and their interaction with him, this drama would be pretty much worthless too, right? The change in Kuwano's character is what we're watching throughout the show and this change is triggered by the supporting cast.

I love the well-chosen supporting cast and I do think they deserve alot more credit for making this show work. Takashima Reiko is a real veteran and Tsukamoto Takashi is one of the best young male supporting actors.

It's the first time I've seen Kuninaka Ryoko and looks aside, I'm really impressed by how naturally well she played her role. I'm not sure if she's ever been in a lead role before but she's definitely an underrated actress. Stop giving lead roles to idol/model-actresses who can't act!

I didn't discount the contribution of the supporting cast: my comment was that Ralph was being overzealous with with the kudos ("Without Ryoko this drama would have been a flat zero.")..........

Reminds me of the old school yard arguments over Ginger vs. Mary Anne, and Samantha vs. Jeanie.

No right answers... but everyone's got an opinion.

Mine? Abe is the lead, and he carries the show. If he hadn't done a great job, none of the rest of the show would have worked, because everything else, everyone else, orbits his character.

And the best part was, he built different aspects into the character as the show went along. He wasn't just anal. He wasn't just anti-social. Those were just the jumping off places.

I love the fact that he also had his evil side. His love for screwing with other people. Of trying to get them into trouble.

Ryoko Kuninaka? I think she's gorgeous. I think she did a great job. She wasn't the lead. She was a supporting character. Her character was there to make the story work.

Reiko Takashima? I never really liked her before. But shortly before seeing "Kekkon..." I saw her in "Haikeo Chichiue-sama", and she was such a delight in that series that it sort of carried over to this one for me.

And Yui Natsukawa. I thought she was amazing. That part could so easily have been played in the classic, Japanese "over the top" style. I mean, there were all sorts of places where she could have lost it, gotten angry, and started chewing scenery.

But she knew she was playing against an extreme character (Kuwano), so she pulled it in. Her humor and her anger, and her style of arguing with Abe were all dry, and suppressed. But through out you could just feel the scream trying to come out. She refused to lose control... but she was always on the edge.

I thought her little verbal contests with Kuwano were fantastic. She knew that the first time she yelled... she'd lose.

And her final smile, at the end of the series, will stick in my head for a long time.

(Like I said... everyone's got an opinion.)
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Geezer wrote:

Mine? Abe is the lead, and he carries the show. If he hadn't done a great job, none of the rest of the show would have worked, because everything else, everyone else, orbits his character.

EXACTLY.

I'm outta here.

estranged wrote:

It's the first time I've seen Kuninaka Ryoko and looks aside, I'm really impressed by how naturally well she played her role. I'm not sure if she's ever been in a lead role before but she's definitely an underrated actress. Stop giving lead roles to idol/model-actresses who can't act!

Kuninaka Ryoko got her start in the asadora Churasan. It became one of the most watched asadoras due to Ryoko chan's charming smile and girl next door charisma. There have been sequels almost every year since then with the original cast up to sequel #4.
Ryoko is one of the most underrated actresses on the Japanese A list... watch brother beat to realize just how vast a range she has from Churasan to Kekkon to Brother Beat each time an amazing portrayal of her designated character.


Of course Abe Hiroshi is a top actor in today's Japanese arsenal. But no actor can shine without the proper vehicle and topnotch supporting cast.
The dim witted OL that Ryoko played opposite the dour Abe and sarcastic doctor was incredibly visionary casting to make all three a seamlessly perfect ensemble that kept me glued to the drama and never being disappointed at each new twist the writer's cleverly introduced.

I just started Kekkon Dekinai Otoko the other day so I'm only on the 2nd or 3rd episode. It's a bit slow, but I like it so far. I really had to laugh in the first episode when....

Click on button to reveal/hide spoiler:

the female doctor ripped his pants off. Damn, she really had some skill.

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Japanese drama trades (on hiatus)

Currently watching: Netflix stuff

Lol Cori.

cori wrote:

I just started Kekkon Dekinai Otoko the other day so I'm only on the 2nd or 3rd episode. It's a bit slow, but I like it so far. I really had to laugh in the first episode when.... Click on button to reveal/hide spoiler: the female doctor ripped his pants off. Damn, she really had some skill.

Didn't I say Episode 1 was an eye-popper?

bmwracer wrote:

Didn't I say Episode 1 was an eye-popper?

More like a lesson to be learned. j/k!
_________________

Japanese drama trades (on hiatus)

Currently watching: Netflix stuff

Interesting reading the comments about the various cast members and their importance to this series. Here's my two cents:

Abe Hiroshi's character is clearly the most important figure in this series. As the protagonist, every MAJOR plot point, theme, irony, and conflict in the story revolve around him.

Natsukawa Yui's character is clearly the second most important figure in this series. She is the catalyst who is responsible for involving Abe Hiroshi's character in the major plot points, themes, etc. If it weren't for Natsumi, Shinsuke would remain static, and you wouldn't have a story.

All other characters, whether human or non-human, are secondary or tertiary contributors to the central storyline.

That said, do Kuninaka Ryoko, Takeshima Reiko, and Ken-chan deserve all the accolades by those who admire their performances in this dorama? Of course. Is their presence one reason why this series has received high praise? Certainly.

But to say that without them, the series would be a "flat zero" or "worthless" is admiration getting in the way of clear thinking.

Why?

Because if you take their characters out of the series, it doesn't change the essential core of the story: the quirky interaction, growing crosscurrent influence, and evolving relationship between two complex people. And btw which series won "Best Screenplay"?

Because if you take them out of the series, you're saying that who is left--Abe Hiroshi, and Natsukawa Yui--are not worth watching. And btw which two actors from this series won acting awards for their performances?

Ask yourself: Is the interplay and chemistry between Abe and Natsukawa really "worthless" viewing? Ask yourself: Is watching Abe and Natsukawa create real, multi-faceted characters and seeing them react to situations ranging from painful to humorous, awkward to enriching, really a "flat zero" experience ? Ask yourself: Is the main plot of this story and the ideas it is presenting really that bad?

I pose these as rhetorical questions; however, I am sure there are those who would strongly disagree with what I believe are cogent points.

Most of what you say above me it true. However, think carefully of what would happen if there were only 2 characters forever interacting for 12 episodes... It's my opinion you would have the worst kind of boredom and this drama would sink to the bottom of the ocean. Each of the supporting cast is vital to the overall success. And it takes this kind of perfect ensemble casting that makes this kind of drama the huge success it is enjoying.

Imagine this same drama without Ken chan.... ugh. His constant doleful eyes bring out so much delight in/with/for Abe..... Take away Ryoko chan, where would those straight lines come from in the ambulance as they go to the hospital.... or the discussions with doctor... those would all disappear... and then what? Who else would own Ken chan so that he could be close to Abe? and so forth. No drama can survive without the supporting cast and even the extras that bring the background to life.

Here's a small excerpt from a script magazine:

This will sound obvious, but the purpose
of your supporting cast is to support.
They support the story. They support the
theme. They support the lead character,
or sometimes the antagonist. They support;
they don�ft distract. That means the supporting
characters will be integral to the story—organic.
Not pasted on from the outside, but grown from
the plot seeds of your central conflict. Coming
up with a great minor character and forcing
him into your story won�ft work very well. You
want to create your supporting cast to fit your
specific story.
Supporting characters often help to show
different aspects of your protagonist. In a
hard-edged action script, you may need a
romantic interest to bring out your hero�fs
more humane side. In Shane and The Road
Warrior, the hero�fs relationship with a kid is
used to expose his non-lethal side. Without
the Feral Kid, Mad Max would be so focused
on the plot problems that we may not identify
with him.

Every character in your screenplay needs to
have a story purpose—a reason for being there.
Supporting characters aren�ft just thrown on
the page to give your protagonist someone to
talk to in this scene, or someone to kiss in that
big scene on page 73; they are part of the story
itself. Any character that can be removed from
the story without harming it, should be removed
from the story. You also should combine
characters who serve the same story purpose
into a single character—if the protagonist has
two best friends who are there to support him,
he may end up with only one. Combining two
characters who serve the same purpose helps to
better focus the story.
etc.

I am truly fascinated by the discussion of which characters and which actors are important to this drama. I've watched it many times, at first the whole thing through, and then I did what I often do just for fun, I fast forwarded through everything but the scenes between Abe Hiroshi and Natsukawa Yui, with and without the other characters in attendance.

For me it's obvious that they are the sun, the moon, and the stars of this series. Each one individually is wonderful, and of course Abe Hiroshi plays every role he ever gets to perfection, but together they mesh so brilliantly, it is impossible to imagine any other actors in their parts.

Not so with the supporting cast, no matter how good they are, with the possible exception of Ken. It doesn't mean they are not excellent...it's just that they are overshadowed by the power of Abe and Natsukawa.

If you see Churasan, you will see the part that Ryoko was created to play. She was so extraordinary at capturing Eri's dazzling smile and artless charm that she seems pale in everything else. Good, but never great. I enjoyed her as the next door neighbor, but I think any competent and pretty young actress could have risen to the occasion.

For me, watching the eccentric architect and the lonely doctor change so gradually, so naturally, so unexpectedly, while holding onto their established quirks, foibles, and personalities is pure pleasure, and the rest of the cast just frames the picture.

I forgot to say one thing about supporting characters, after reading the mini-treatise posted by Ralph.

I always thought it was obvious that because the dorama format is usually 10, 11, or 12 episodes, a lot of the supporting cast is thrown in to flesh out all those hours of storyline. To be crass and cynical about it, a lot of it is "filler."

Sometimes it's done well, and sometimes those ancillary storylines are a bit frayed around the edges.

shin2 wrote:

But to say that without them, the series would be a "flat zero" or "worthless" is admiration getting in the way of clear thinking.

My sentiments exactly....