This is a list of sellers on eBay and other auction sites that are selling fanworks or fansubs, which go against ethics of drama fans everywhere. If you're one of these sellers and would like to make a complaint against me or retaliate is some way, knock yourself out! This list will be updated on a regular basis, so check this post on a regular basis.

CLEARLY INFRINGING ETHICS:

gingertoys2
7 negative feedback this month alone from buyers citing bootleg/fansubs as their reason for the negative feedback. Turns lower-qualitly works into DVD, then tries to sell them giving buyers the impression they're better quality, therefore charging higher starting bid prices.
http://contact.ebay.com/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?ShowCoreAskSellerQuestion&requested=gingertoys2&iid=3385909684&frm=284

djchoisum
Brand-new seller, but already blasting eBay with tons of dramas, virtually all of them clearly being JEM and Keal captures. More likely a previously banned seller on eBay because of the seller's huge inventory and very familiar ads.
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=djchoisum

oshin377
Been around for quite awhile now, and a fairly clean record. Most of his buyers are returning customers, so they know what they're getting. But clearly his entire inventory is made up mostly of JEM, Keal, and Musui fanworks.
http://contact.ebay.com/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?ShowCoreAskSellerQuestion&requested=oshin377&iid=3386160556&frm=284

INVESTIGATING/WATCHING:

shoei-arai
http://contact.ebay.com/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?ShowCoreAskSellerQuestion&requested=shoei-arai&iid=3385079441&frm=284


Reason for creating this list and aggressively tracking these sellers is that I'm an up-and-coming capturer, and my fanworks are starting to pop up on the drama trading scene. This is my pro-active way of making sure these sellers don't even THINK of selling my capturers, and at the same time help out other capturers from others making a profit on their works.


--- Edit 02/17/04 - Placed masterguy6 in by accident. He was the bidder, not the seller. Took him off.

--- groink

That's heca messed up! AHHHH I hate people who try to sell JDramas for profit. Can't they just do it for the love of JDramas ><

*sigh*

I didn't see any dramas for sale by masterguy6, though. No current items for sale, and only 3 items that he received feedback for. Did I miss something? I do feel like kinda making fun of the guy, though. He bought 2 $5 Starbucks giftcards for $4.76 each. Way to save, dude.

Just sent djchoisum an e-mail via the following bid on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3390603088

"Just curious... Why are you shipping first class rate when you can ship 100 or more CD-Rs for a flat $3.85 via USPS Priority? Or, is this a way of making a hefty profit off of fanwork and fansubs?"

To be fair & balanced, here is the seller's shipping rates:

USA Buyer pays $5.50 for USPS First Class Mail. $2.50 Discount per additional Jdrama/Kdrama auction. Example, if you buy 1drama, shipping is $5.50, if 2 dramas shipping is $8.50, 3 dramas is $11.50, and so on.

International Buyer pays $10 for Air Mail. $5 addtional drama.

Optional Insurance is $3.50, $1.50 per additional drama.

In otherwords, if I bought Shopping Hero (11 CD-Rs) and Shota no Sushi (17 CD-Rs), that would be at a minimum $20.00 just for the discs plus $8.50 for shipping. He's also ripping people off on the insurance... Insurance on $100.00 of stuff is only $2.20 (www.usps.com).

If the seller was practicing fanwork etiquette, it should be about 50-cents per CD-R (going rate for excellent quality CD-R media) plus a maximum $3.85 for USPS Priority shipping (USPS Priority flat rate envelopes does not have a weight limitation - the seller right now ships in soft envelopes).

Can you believe this crap?????

--- groink

groink wrote:

Just sent djchoisum an e-mail via the following bid on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3390603088 "Just curious... Why are you shipping first class rate when you can ship 100 or more CD-Rs for a flat $3.85 via USPS Priority? Or, is this a way of making a hefty profit off of fanwork and fansubs?" To be fair & balanced, here is the seller's shipping rates: USA Buyer pays $5.50 for USPS First Class Mail. $2.50 Discount per additional Jdrama/Kdrama auction. Example, if you buy 1drama, shipping is $5.50, if 2 dramas shipping is $8.50, 3 dramas is $11.50, and so on. International Buyer pays $10 for Air Mail. $5 addtional drama. Optional Insurance is $3.50, $1.50 per additional drama. In otherwords, if I bought Shopping Hero (11 CD-Rs) and Shota no Sushi (17 CD-Rs), that would be at a minimum $20.00 just for the discs plus $8.50 for shipping. He's also ripping people off on the insurance... Insurance on $100.00 of stuff is only $2.20 (www.usps.com). If the seller was practicing fanwork etiquette, it should be about 50-cents per CD-R (going rate for excellent quality CD-R media) plus a maximum $3.85 for USPS Priority shipping (USPS Priority flat rate envelopes does not have a weight limitation - the seller right now ships in soft envelopes). Can you believe this crap????? --- groink

It makes me pissed off and jealous all at once If he wants to use bubble mailers, that's like $1 at the most. The weight can vary when you use bubble mailers though....depending on how many series you ship and how thick you pack it. I happen to pack a little thick I'm paranoid about CD's getting damaged in the mail. I wouldn't expect him to pay out more than $6 in shipping for like 3-4 series or even more by Priority though.

Aside from Ebayers, I always say I have mixed feelings about distros. Before shipping, if a distro (with a good rep for delivering on time) charges $1 or less per CD-R, I'm ok with it. CD's vary in price across the country and some pack differently.....so as long as it's under that, I don't feel as if it's a ripoff. They probably make a little something, but a few cents per CD...which wouldn't bother me so much.

Why are you guys only picking on me. My listings are mostly $9.99 each, you guys could go and check out shoei-arai and oshin377, they list theirs from $12.99 to $15.99 for 10-12 VCD sets. And they dont even offer combined shipping.

I use TDK 48X CDRs which cost $25(plus Tax) for pack of 50 locally. Just because Im using EBay to sell jdrama dont mean im any different than most of you traders out there, all of you guys are offering to sell the series for $1 each VCD. So whats the difference? A serie would cost $10-$12 from you traders. Just the same price as me. ONIZUKA was doing DVD distro for $5 a DVD? 100Pack of DVDR cost only $87 (Ritek 4X, good stuff, www.rima.com), so hes not massive profit now? 1 serie would be on 2 DVD-Rs, costing $10, plus shipping, he makes $8 or $9, so why arent you guys pissed at him?

Not everyone has broadband internet or the time like we do to download the Jdrama. I have gotten many emails thanking me offer those dramas. Some people simply do not want to waste their time to download the jdramas, and some wants to watch them on VCDs instead of computer.

I remember back in the VHS Distro days, fansubber charged $7.95 for a 1HR VHS, so why are you guys so pissed off that there is someone distroing 10+ HR of Video for $10 when 10+ HRs of video used to cost $80+.

It seems like to me that anyone who does jdrama on ebay is wrong and that people who own their own website who sells the jdrama when people "do not have anything to trade". OH COME ON, all the traders out here owns mostly everything, you could just doing the same thing Im doing, SELLING the jdramas.

Fabsub is for fan, and what Im doing is exposing JDRAMA to a wider audience. I know making a profit out of free work is wrong, but somehow I need to make money back from all the equipments I bought that started this distro on ebay. Telling the truth, I make the LEAST AMOUNT out of most sellers on ebay.
_________________

djchoisum wrote:

I remember back in the VHS Distro days, fansubber charged $7.95 for a 1HR VHS, so why are you guys so pissed off that there is someone distroing 10+ HR of Video for $10 when 10+ HRs of video used to cost $80+. It seems like to me that anyone who does jdrama on ebay is wrong and that people who own their own website who sells the jdrama when people "do not have anything to trade". OH COME ON, all the traders out here owns mostly everything, you could just doing the same thing Im doing, SELLING the jdramas. Fabsub is for fan, and what Im doing is exposing JDRAMA to a wider audience. I know making a profit out of free work is wrong, but somehow I need to make money back from all the equipments I bought that started this distro on ebay. Telling the truth, I make the LEAST AMOUNT out of most sellers on ebay.

Oh.. VHS distro day, are you actually aware that during that time 1hr VHS tape cost about $6 and there are much more works involved to get it right than vcd. (Yes, I am aware of this since I started on fansubs on 1996/7)

Selling Jdrama is not wrong if you own the original copy, but selling fansub is wrong. Not to mention un-ethical.

Exposing Jdrama to wider audience by selling it on ebay? I bet you know this as well as me, -every- single person that search a jdrama title in eBAY already know about jdrama that's why they search it on ebay.

My 50c.

-P

ps: Groink, please post the fansub seller list on the old thread about fansub sellers. I myself have that thread bookmarked, so does Mr. Erving from eBay community watch.
We have been trying to nail downs fansub sellers for years. And I am one of their contacts when it comes to asian series.

WOW! I'm surprised djchoisum answered back. His rep on the street based on his rep here may have caused a cut in his sales...
_________________

A friendly letter I sent to oshin377:

My capture of Younger Men is about to finish seeding. Keal or Musui is probably going to upload this same one on the newsgroups sooner or later. I notice that you're selling Keal and Musui captures that were posted on the newsgroups. I can't stop you directly from doing that. HOWEVER, if I catch ANY of my groink captures being sold by you on eBay, myself along with others on JDorama.com are going to report your butt to eBay Safe Harbor. Again, I had better not see any of my captures being sold on eBay, or else your copyright-breaking butt will soon be kicked off of eBay. Enjoy yourself with breaking Japanese drama trading ethics.

http://www.jdorama.com/viewtopic_3702.htm

--- groink

BTW folks, djchoisum no longer sells dramas on eBay. The listings there are much smaller now.

--- groink

go for it groink. I support you.

djchoisum probably got pissed off. hahahahaa........

no one is going to call buyers names anymore.. bwahhahahahhhaha

neefo wrote:

go for it groink. I support you. djchoisum probably got pissed off. hahahahaa........ no one is going to call buyers names anymore.. bwahhahahahhhaha

Well, maybe djchoisum is somewhat upset. However, he stopped selling not because he wanted to... His account is now showing as "unregistered" on eBay. I think eBay nailed him.

So let that be a lesson to all the other sellers!!!!!

--- groink

Prince wrote:

Selling Jdrama is not wrong if you own the original copy, but selling fansub is wrong. Not to mention un-ethical.

ebay is 'the goto' and if they, the fansub sellers, had their own site then they wouldnt be as much of a target.

plain and simple.

would these sellers get fined if they were caught?

groink wrote:

Well, maybe djchoisum is somewhat upset. However, he stopped selling not because he wanted to... His account is now showing as "unregistered" on eBay. I think eBay nailed him. So let that be a lesson to all the other sellers!!!!! --- groink

It says his account is suspended.

duba878 wrote:

would these sellers get fined if they were caught?

fined probably not, but with several bootlegs complaints they will be banned from ebay for sure

hi
, when id did'nt have dsl, i bought most of my animes on ebay. and i was happy that they were there coz I couldn't get them on mirc or any other way becase of my poor connection. I agree with him in the fact that other people with their own websitess sell fansubbed dramas why would it be different when he sells them on ebay. I think i don't have the right to say selling fansubs are okay coz I'm not a fansubber but I'm not opposed to it cuz what other way can you get these dramas subtitled in english if you don't have a great connection or money to pay for a streamload account. I think its okay if the sellers are not selling them to make a profit. but to spread jdrama.

kumukurukuk wrote:

hi , when id did'nt have dsl, i bought most of my animes on ebay. and i was happy that they were there coz I couldn't get them on mirc or any other way becase of my poor connection. I agree with him in the fact that other people with their own websitess sell fansubbed dramas why would it be different when he sells them on ebay. I think i don't have the right to say selling fansubs are okay coz I'm not a fansubber but I'm not opposed to it cuz what other way can you get these dramas subtitled in english if you don't have a great connection or money to pay for a streamload account. I think its okay if the sellers are not selling them to make a profit. but to spread jdrama.

I was on the same boat as you were before I got my DSL. I was thankful for eBay sellers....that is until I bought a couple of series. Yes, it would be great if they did it to spread dorama, but that's not the case. Sure, it would be okay if they didn't sell for profit but most of the time they do. Most series go for $11 - $12 before shipping.....a CDR cost like $.75 now and shipping is $2 for first class. They make about $2 or $3 a series. This figure doesn't seem much but multiply that by the number of people who buy it and thats a whole lot of money.

Actually I feel kinda stupid.....I usually bought like 2 or 3 dramas a month from eBay then I relized, "Hey it would be cheaper to get a $30 a month DSL line!"

kumukurukuk wrote:

but I'm not opposed to it cuz what other way can you get these dramas subtitled in english if you don't have a great connection or money to pay for a streamload account. I think its okay if the sellers are not selling them to make a profit. but to spread jdrama.

Bottom line, it's really a matter of the capturers themselves. JEM has made it obviously clear that he doesn't want people to be selling his captures, period. Unlike JEM, Keal and Musui do not doctor up their captures, making their work even easier targets to sellers. However, via e-mail, both of them have made it clear that they don't apperciate the practice either.

To be quite honest, if I wasn't capturing my stuff and sharing it with others, I wouldn't be doing any of this. I'd instead let JEM and the others fight their own battles. This quest is purely a pro-active effort on my part to prevent my captures from putting money in other people's pockets. They're my captures and therefore I make the rules on how people use them. In a legal sense (even though we all know what we're doing is anything but legal), if you own or have a license to something and someone copies it, you must vigorously go after those people. Otherwise, if you let them slide then later on you decide to fight them, you don't have a leg to stand on. That's how it all work. So basically this is my way of preventing anything from happening. The goal is in two parts:

1) Let them know I won't apperciate it, so don't even try it.

2) If they do flip me the bird and do it anyway, they know I'll come after them, using eBay's Safe Harbor as my tool.

Referencing sellers outside of eBay... Still they shouldn't do it. It's just as wrong as selling them on eBay. However, I have no means of bring them down. I could in theory report them to their ISP. However seeing I work for an ISP, I know for a fact that they won't do a thing because I'm not the copyright owner. If someone from FUJI-TV or TBS were to report to the ISP, then yes the ISP would give the seller a warning or shut the site down. eBay Safe Harbor, on the otherhand, doesn't need to hear from the original copyright owners. If they look at the merchandise being sold and they feel they're bootlegs, then they'll take action.

So all in all, captures of dramas is meant to be used for trading purposes only. Individuals can sell them to others for the cost of the media and shipping charges, but that's it.

--- groink

I noticed on recent Musui encodes he started covering the KIKU letters with a mosaic kind of thing.