i dont like europeans... they talk funny... i can never understand them.

dochira wrote:

You're right. I don't ever see that happening for Europeans.

it always strikes me as a bit odd when peoples, nations, continents or whatever identifier is particular to the conversation try to replicate certain experiences and experiments based on the success of other models...i'm not saying that is a bad idea...in fact experience is a great teacher YET one issue that's inevitably downplayed or overlooked is the PARTICULAR set of circumstances involved in the creation or evolution of certain things...

Americans grew up quickly as a federation of states...seeing as European national identiities have been formulated for hundreds of years overcoming cultural economic and social idiosyncracies and preferences will be difficult at best.

It's like Third World nations of Latin American and South East Asia looking toward the NICS (Newly Industrialized Countires) of East Asia as a model of economic growth. While those models proved to be wildly successful in the region they would be hard to replicate in the present.

The American experiment evolved at particular time in history in relative isolation from Old World influences.....to try to reverse engineer that in Europe with the EU will take much longer.

Similar shortcomings will present themselves in regards to Iraq if that's not already evident.

Tu_triky wrote:

Americans grew up quickly as a federation of states...seeing as European national identiities have been formulated for hundreds of years overcoming cultural economic and social idiosyncracies and preferences will be difficult at best.

While they are Europeans as defined by whoever came up with the concept of continents, their long-standing history should be an integral part of their identities.

Tu_triky wrote:

It's like Third World nations of Latin American and South East Asia looking toward the NICS (Newly Industrialized Countires) of East Asia as a model of economic growth. While those models proved to be wildly successful in the region they would be hard to replicate in the present.

This one a difficult one for me, and it hits home when I see conditions in the Philippines. Once an economic power in Asia (albeit not a super one), it frustrates me when I don't see improvements in the economy/basic living/wages in the country. Granted, I can't compare the mentalities of the Japanese vs. Filipinos, but I'm amazed at how Japan emerged from devastation from WWII (they were much worse than the Philippines) into an economic superpower. It is probably a case of apples vs. oranges.

Tu_triky wrote:

it always strikes me as a bit odd when peoples, nations, continents or whatever identifier is particular to the conversation try to replicate certain experiences and experiments based on the success of other models...i'm not saying that is a bad idea...in fact experience is a great teacher YET one issue that's inevitably downplayed or overlooked is the PARTICULAR set of circumstances involved in the creation or evolution of certain things... Americans grew up quickly as a federation of states...seeing as European national identiities have been formulated for hundreds of years overcoming cultural economic and social idiosyncracies and preferences will be difficult at best. It's like Third World nations of Latin American and South East Asia looking toward the NICS (Newly Industrialized Countires) of East Asia as a model of economic growth. While those models proved to be wildly successful in the region they would be hard to replicate in the present. The American experiment evolved at particular time in history in relative isolation from Old World influences.....to try to reverse engineer that in Europe with the EU will take much longer. Similar shortcomings will present themselves in regards to Iraq if that's not already evident.

Whew you sure said a mouthful there Tu! Eventhough I made the comparisons between the United States of America and a new United Europe I grasp that they are entirely different situations. Each standing in their own unique time and place and function in history. The truth of the matter is I pretty much always see things as boiling down to the simple fact that people are people all over the world. We actually are more a like in our nature than we are unalike. Maybe I simplify things way too much, but my brain can grasp things a lot more clearly when I do.

I do enjoy reading your thoughts and comments Tu_triky as well as others on this board. In future discussions you will notice that my own personal motto for me of KISS (keep it simple stupid) will apply most of the time.

dochira wrote:

This one a difficult one for me, and it hits home when I see conditions in the Philippines. Once an economic power in Asia (albeit not a super one), it frustrates me when I don't see improvements in the economy/basic living/wages in the country. Granted, I can't compare the mentalities of the Japanese vs. Filipinos, but I'm amazed at how Japan emerged from devastation from WWII (they were much worse than the Philippines) into an economic superpower. It is probably a case of apples vs. oranges.

as a student of political science i could expound on this point for ages...but again there were certain political and macroeconomic conditions in place before and after WWII that favored the ABILITITY for the hyper growth of the japanese economy. historical antecedents also play a part...given that Japan doesn't have a prolonged history as a vassal state. the colonizers and the colonized often meet very different fates. apples vs. oranges you say, rightfully perhaps BUT your comparison is a valid point of interest and is one that has been targeted for academic study more than once.

There are stupid people and bastards everywhere in the world , not only in Europe ...
You can't generalize !

Helene wrote:

There are stupid people and bastards everywhere in the world , not only in Europe ... You can't generalize !

So glad to hear that you see the best in people Helene. Whose post are you responding to? I didn't see anyone here saying that Europeans were stupid and/or bastards. Did I miss something?

Enna wrote:

Whew you sure said a mouthful there Tu! Eventhough I made the comparisons between the United States of America and a new United Europe I grasp that they are entirely different situations. Each standing in their own unique time and place and function in history. The truth of the matter is I pretty much always see things as boiling down to the simple fact that people are people all over the world. We actually are more a like in our nature than we are unalike. Maybe I simplify things way too much, but my brain can grasp things a lot more clearly when I do. I do enjoy reading your thoughts and comments Tu_triky as well as others on this board. In future discussions you will notice that my own personal motto for me of KISS (keep it simple stupid) will apply most of the time.

pardon me if you thought my response was aimed in any particular way at your post...not as if that is a bad thing but i just flashed my reply in response to dochira's comment about achieving unity among different european nationalities...in any case your point is well taken...ppl are more prone to emaphasizing the differences rather than similarities in academic debates...i don't entertain delusions of grandeur regarding my comments because i know we could devote several hundred pages of posts on the matter...but then bmwracer and the malaysians would get pissed off that we passed them in numbers.....

no, all kidding aside, the experiment that is the european union which was marked by the Maastricht Treaty of 1992 has la ong road to travel....they've made great strides in the harmonization of rules and regulations regarding various aspects of commerce but the symbolic or literary reference to EUROPE as one stronghold is still a ways off...the wheels of history turn slowly yet creep up so unexpectedly at times.


p.s. yes it's nice to talk about something "serious" every once in a while...mental gymnastics for the brain. i thank you, too, for your posts.

Tu_triky wrote:

pardon me if you thought my response was aimed in any particular way at your post...not as if that is a bad thing but i just flashed my reply in response to dochira's comment about achieving unity among different european nationalities...in any case your point is well taken...ppl are more prone to emaphasizing the differences rather than similarities in academic debates...i don't entertain delusions of grandeur regarding my comments because i know we could devote several hundred pages of posts on the matter...but then bmwracer and the malaysians would get pissed off that we passed them in numbers..... no, all kidding aside, the experiment that is the european union which was marked by the Maastricht Treaty of 1992 has la ong road to travel....they've made great strides in the harmonization of rules and regulations regarding various aspects of commerce but the symbolic or literary reference to EUROPE as one stronghold is still a ways off...the wheels of history turn slowly yet creep up so unexpectedly at times. p.s. yes it's nice to talk about something "serious" every once in a while...mental gymnastics for the brain. i thank you, too, for your posts.

Goodo Tu!!!! I don't always follow the world news as much as I should so it IS a good exercise for my brain to digest more than just the daily "Who died?, Which country had a disaster? and Who killed whom today? in the news."

Thanks for the clarification on your post. I appreciate it. I better stop posting here or beemer boy is gonna get me.

Enna wrote:

I better stop posting here or beemer boy is gonna get me.

Eh??

bmwracer wrote:

Eh??

it's in response to the joke in my post

tu_triky wrote:

i don't entertain delusions of grandeur regarding my comments because i know we could devote several hundred pages of posts on the matter...but then bmwracer and the malaysians would get pissed off that we passed them in numbers.....

Enna wrote:

I better stop posting here or beemer boy is gonna get me. bmwracer wrote: Eh??

Here is a clue:

Tu_triky wrote:

i don't entertain delusions of grandeur regarding my comments because i know we could devote several hundred pages of posts on the matter...but then bmwracer and the malaysians would get pissed off that we passed them in numbers.....

Get it now bmw?????

"we are the world, we are the children..."

kinkikinki wrote:

"we are the world, we are the children..."

"that kill, maim, and blow each other up with power, money, arms, pestilence, and greed"

Enna wrote:

So glad to hear that you see the best in people Helene. Whose post are you responding to? I didn't see anyone here saying that Europeans were stupid and/or bastards. Did I miss something?

I don't answer to any post in particular . I just write what I think . People tend to generalize all the time ... when you hear them talk, it's like " the French are like that ... The Americans are like that ... the japanese are like that ... bla bla bla ... " that's stupid ! I think that there are good AND bad people in every country .

kinkikinki wrote:

"we are the world, we are the children... " Tu_triky wrote: "that kill, maim, and blow each other up with power, money, arms, pestilence, and greed"

Ya'll are some sick puppies!! Now that is what we call in Buddhism the Three Poisons of Anger, Greed and Stupidity.

Helene wrote:

I don't answer to any post in particular . I just write what I think . People tend to generalize all the time ... when you hear them talk, it's like " the French are like that ... The Americans are like that ... the japanese are like that ... bla bla bla ... " that's stupid ! I think that there are good AND bad people in every country .

Thanks for your answer Helene but lets face it most people do tend to generalize. Me I try to see the good in all but sometimes that is a big challenge indeed!

Enna wrote:

Ya'll are some sick puppies!! Now that is what we call in Buddhism the Three Poisons of Anger, Greed and Stupidity.

yes, but that's countered by the famed fried chicken you ate at a Japanese "conbeni" (convenience store)....must be a yin and yang thing...

Tu_triky wrote:

yes, but that's countered by the famed fried chicken you ate at a Japanese "conbeni" (convenience store)....must be a yin and yang thing...

Errr whatever you say Tu. You say E-ither and I say eI-ther. Lets call the whole thing off.

the whoooooooolllleeee thing off...

OOOOOO... soo..... you say Tomato... i say toMato...

Enna wrote:

Errr whatever you say Tu. You say E-ither and I say eI-ther. Lets call the whole thing off.

in any event, europe will survive.... maybe we should send jesse jackson over there to make sure everything is alright