Lollidolly wrote:

I agree with this chap. I use 'Jap' when typing fast just because having to type out Japanese ALL THE TIME when talking to someone about my studies just seems ridiculous. Yeah I'm aware its offensive, but unless I'm using it offensively, what does it matter? I'm just using it as an abbreviation (and yes, i'm aware i could just type jp or jpn or something but I don't). Really depends on the context imo. Just my two cents~

Without commenting about the specific situation referenced above, sometimes context doesn't really save a situation though.

Recently a candidate for Congress in the state of Ohio wore an SS uniform as part of an historical reenactment. He tried to to justify it by saying he was doing it for educational purposes and he didn't do it because the SS uniform represented his personal views. Gimme a fuggin' break. Apparently he thinks he needs to educate the rest of us about the historical importance of the Waffen SS by wearing the uniform.

That's like a Korean driving around Seoul wearing a Japanese Imperial Army uniform with a big Hinomaru flag painted on his car to educate his countrymen.

Lollidolly wrote:

Yeah I'm aware its offensive, but unless I'm using it offensively, what does it matter?

How are we supposed to know who's using it offensively or not?

And is it that exasperating to to type the word "Japanese?"

bmwracer wrote:

And is it that exasperating to to type the word "Japanese?"

The culture of LOL, BRB, BFF, LMAO, ZOMG, etc.

Tu_triky wrote:

The culture of LOL, BRB, BFF, LMAO, ZOMG, etc.

It's all BS.

bmwracer wrote:

It's all BS.

IMHO.

Lollidolly wrote:

I agree with this chap. I use 'Jap' when typing fast just because having to type out Japanese ALL THE TIME when talking to someone about my studies just seems ridiculous. Yeah I'm aware its offensive, but unless I'm using it offensively, what does it matter? I'm just using it as an abbreviation (and yes, i'm aware i could just type jp or jpn or something but I don't). Really depends on the context imo. Just my two cents~

Typing "Japanese" would take less time then it took you to write that paragraph.

Tu_triky wrote:

Without commenting about the specific situation referenced above, sometimes context doesn't really save a situation though. Recently a candidate for Congress in the state of Ohio wore an SS uniform as part of an historical reenactment. He tried to to justify it by saying he was doing it for educational purposes and he didn't do it because the SS uniform represented his personal views. Gimme a fuggin' break. Apparently he thinks he needs to educate the rest of us about the historical importance of the Waffen SS by wearing the uniform. That's like a Korean driving around Seoul wearing a Japanese Imperial Army uniform with a big Hinomaru flag painted on his car to educate his countrymen.

I think your example did the opposite you intended and reinforced the need for understanding context. Reenactments of different wars is very common, and someone always has to play the other side. It doesn't mean they hold those beliefs, whether they're doing World War 2, the Civil War, or the Battle of Agincourt. To say someone who dresses up like an SS officer for a reenactment is a closet Nazi is akin to saying any actor who portrays an SS officer(ie. Ed Harris, Ralph Fiennes) is one. Or in the case of your Korean example, any actor who portrays a Japanese soldier in a movie or historical reenactment.

Tu_triky wrote:

That's like a Korean driving around Seoul wearing a Japanese Imperial Army uniform with a big Hinomaru flag painted on his car to educate his countrymen.

I remember reading about an actress (Korean or Chinese I don't recall exactly) that wore the Japanese war flag. It might have been part of a photoshoot, but yeah the backlash wasn't pretty.

Jav_sol wrote:

I remember reading about an actress (Korean or Chinese I don't recall exactly) that wore the Japanese war flag. It might have been part of a photoshoot, but yeah the backlash wasn't pretty.

Is she still alive?

Tu_triky wrote:

Is she still alive?

Should be, I must have read the article within the last couple of years, since I started watching Japanese & Korean dramas.

Tu_triky wrote:

Is she still alive?

Yeah. It was the cover and promo art for the girl singing group SNSD. They were going through a "military look" phase, and the costume people decided to pick medals and emblems that resembled Nazi and German military decorations(but without the swastika). The Japanese thing was the picture of a Zero-like fighter on the CD cover.

Kijinnmaru wrote:

I think your example did the opposite you intended and reinforced the need for understanding context. Reenactments of different wars is very common, and someone always has to play the other side. It doesn't mean they hold those beliefs, whether they're doing World War 2, the Civil War, or the Battle of Agincourt. To say someone who dresses up like an SS officer for a reenactment is a closet Nazi is akin to saying any actor who portrays an SS officer(ie. Ed Harris, Ralph Fiennes) is one. Or in the case of your Korean example, any actor who portrays a Japanese soldier in a movie or historical reenactment.

He doesn't have to be a closet Nazi for it to be offensive, and he is clearly not actor. Apparently despite the historical reenactment, as a political figure he's incredibly ignorant of history, given what the SS represented.

You can't even wear an SS uniform in Germany without getting arrested, regardless of the reason. I wonder why?

I guess Prince Harry wearing a Nazi uniform, too, was excusable because it was in the context of Halloween.

I said nothing about actors which of course would have license, given their craft.

Somethings are just patently offensive to some people.

Jav_sol wrote:

Should be, I must have read the article within the last couple of years, since I started watching Japanese & Korean dramas.

Poor taste at the very least.

Kijinnmaru wrote:

Yeah. It was the cover and promo art for the girl singing group SNSD. They were going through a "military look" phase, and the costume people decided to pick medals and emblems that resembled Nazi and German military decorations(but without the swastika). The Japanese thing was the picture of a Zero-like fighter on the CD cover.

That's not the incident I'm talking about. That SNSD scandal seemed like the work of people who hate them more than anything else. The actress I'm talking about had the actual flag with her, like wearing it.

Tu_triky wrote:

He doesn't have to be a closet Nazi for it to be offensive, and he is clearly not actor. Apparently despite the historical reenactment, as a political figure he's incredibly ignorant of history, given what the SS represented. You can't even wear an SS uniform in Germany without getting arrested, regardless of the reason. I wonder why? I guess Prince Harry wearing a Nazi uniform, too, was excusable because it was in the context of Halloween. I said nothing about actors which of course would have license, given their craft. Somethings are just patently offensive to some people.

Germany is completely ashamed of that period of their history. It's even against the law there to name your son Adolf(a common German name). This shame has been taken to a level that their own modern military has suffered in fear of the image of an "oppresive, German" military. The Olympic Munich Massacre was a direct result of this mindset.

Prince Harry wasn't wearing his costume to a reenactment. Reenactments are organized events that portray historical battles or events. They are no different than actors, except they don't get paid and purchase their uniform and equipment with their own money. They are history aficionados whose attention to detail of uniform, equipment, and battle order would put all of Hollywood to shame, and even some historians. The Civil War reenactors actually make up the armies in Civil War movies. It's as much as their craft as well.

Jav_sol wrote:

That's not the incident I'm talking about. That SNSD scandal seemed like the work of people who hate them more than anything else. The actress I'm talking about had the actual flag with her, like wearing it.

Well, oh snap. She was young, wasn't she?

Kijinnmaru wrote:

Germany is completely ashamed of that period of their history. It's even against the law there to name your son Adolf(a common German name). This shame has been taken to a level that their own modern military has suffered in fear of the image of an "oppresive, German" military. The Olympic Munich Massacre was a direct result of this mindset. Prince Harry wasn't wearing his costume to a reenactment. Reenactments are organized events that portray historical battles or events. They are no different than actors, except they don't get paid and purchase their uniform and equipment with their own money. They are history aficionados whose attention to detail of uniform, equipment, and battle order would put all of Hollywood to shame, and even some historians. The Civil War reenactors actually make up the armies in Civil War movies. It's as much as their craft as well.

I assure you whatever reenactment taking place is a sanitized version of history. That guy cannot casually wear an SS uniform by saying it's for educational purposes and think you could get away with it as somehow inoffensive. Wiking units were responsible for the slaughter of Hungarian Jews and other undesirables during WWII. That is history. The uniform is symbolic of that. Just because this guy has a romanticized version of history doesn't make it so.

He doesn't mind excising all the nasty bits to rationalize his involvement.

He can "play" waffen SS all day long if he'd like but to think it's somehow inoffensive is beyond the pale.

Kijinnmaru wrote:

Well, oh snap. She was young, wasn't she?

Don't remember. Since I brought it up, I'll see if I can find her name and pic.

Tu_triky wrote:

I assure you whatever reenactment taking place is a sanitized version of history. That guy cannot casually wear an SS uniform by saying it's for educational purposes and think you could get away with it as somehow inoffensive. Wiking units were responsible for the slaughter of Hungarian Jews and other undesirables during WWII. That is history. The uniform is symbolic of that. Just because this guy has a romanticized version of history doesn't make it so. He doesn't mind excising all the nasty bits to rationalize his involvement. He can "play" waffen SS all day long if he'd like but to think it's somehow inoffensive is beyond the pale.

How would this be any different than actors in a movie? He's not casually wearing an SS uniform. He's playing a role in an organized event. There are reenactments of Pacific battles as well. Do we find offense at those who wear the Japanese Imperial Army uniform, whose atrocities eclipsed the SS in scope, when participating? And again, how would this be different than actors doing the same dramatized portrayal of historical events?

Kijinnmaru wrote:

How would this be any different than actors in a movie? He's not casually wearing an SS uniform. He's playing a role in an organized event. There are reenactments of Pacific battles as well. Do we find offense at those who wear the Japanese Imperial Army uniform, whose atrocities eclipsed the SS in scope, when participating? And again, how would this be different than actors doing the same dramatized portrayal of historical events?

I think that's a facile argument.

The fact is he is not an actor. I'm quite sure if there were other reenactments that presented flawed characterizations of history by employing sanitized portrayals of historical actors there would surely be people who would be offended.

Just because this particular example is one that takes place in the context of a reenactment does not excuse the guy's poor judgment.

You have your thoughts on the matter which are fine, but I can clearly see how some people would consider this exercise offensive regardless of the context.