lovelessemotion wrote:

can u explain further? that sounds interesting to me... i'm ultraserious.. PLEASE!?!!?! ;)

I'll just quote a dictionary.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/english/data/d0081591.html
Quote "A British person referring to an Asian will probably mean someone from the Indian sub-continent, or whose ancestors came from there. An American will probably mean someone whose roots lie further east, in the area between the Indian and Pacific Oceans (the Vietnamese, Koreans, Thais, Japanese, etc). "

Whereas oriental would be China, Japan, Korea etc.

So in the UK you can't just substitute 'asian' for 'oriental' because they refer to two different areas.

It also appears, from the checking around I've done, that oriental is less frowned upon in the UK in relation to people.

Basically though, if possible, the best way it to refer to their actual nationality. e.g. "I saw a cute Japanese girl at the library." is better than "I saw a cute oriental girl at the library."

Long and interesting thread! It feels a bit strange jumping in at this point since its obvious this thing has been going on for a while.

Anyway, thought I'd comment on Maya's observations:

Quote:

To whom it may concern, As a person of Japanese decent, I feel offended by the derogatory nature of the name of your web site. You should be aware that the word "Jap" is highly offensive and parallel to the "n word" for people of African descent or "gook" to those of Vietnamese and Korean descent. I am a fan of both Japanese drama and music, but your web site appalls me. This type of racism is absolutely unacceptable, especially for a website that advocates a large part of Japanese culture. I am incensed by this blatant and obviously ignorant use of such a strong and offensive word. Do you understand the implications of naming your web site this? The word "Jap" should never be used. It is derogatory and disrespectful, serving as a way for people, especially foreigners, to express their condescending views toward the Asian race. Please take this into consideration. Absolutely angered, Maya

For clarification I am Japanese American from California, but have lived for extended periods of time in Osaka, Hawaii, and now Okinawa.

The term "J**" offends me and makes me cringe because I know and understand the derogatory and racist usage the term has in the United States. It is not so easy to just "not let a word bother you" when the historical use of the term has often been accompanied by violence in the country where I was born and raised. So I understand Maya's reaction.

The eye-opening part of this whole thread for me has been to take note of where the posters are from. It appears to me that in Singapore and Malaysia the term "J**" does not have the same derogatory meaning or connotation that it has in the United States, so to call Genma or the owners of this site "racist" is going too far, because within the context of their country and culture, the term doesn't share the same history it does in the US.

At the same time, because the world wide web is not bound by any single country specific region, to use a term that is hurtful and racist for some people can be construed as just that.

I don't know to what extent Maya was aware that she was addressing someone from a different country with her message, because from the content of her complaint she's pretty much expecting the site owners to have the same cultural knowledge she has. I wonder if she became more forgiving upon finding out this wasn't the case.

Anyway, thanks Genma (if you're the owner of this site) for being considerate enough to change the site name.

[/i]

PaulTB wrote:

Quote "A British person referring to an Asian will probably mean someone from the Indian sub-continent, or whose ancestors came from there. An American will probably mean someone whose roots lie further east, in the area between the Indian and Pacific Oceans (the Vietnamese, Koreans, Thais, Japanese, etc). " Whereas oriental would be China, Japan, Korea etc. So in the UK you can't just substitute 'asian' for 'oriental' because they refer to two different areas. It also appears, from the checking around I've done, that oriental is less frowned upon in the UK in relation to people. Basically though, if possible, the best way it to refer to their actual nationality. e.g. "I saw a cute Japanese girl at the library." is better than "I saw a cute oriental girl at the library."

I think in the UK, there is a lot more subcontenent asians than asians of CHN, JPN, Korean descent and that's why they differentiate as 2 groups. But you hit the nail on the head, paul. IF POSSIBLE, but a lot of times, it may not be possible to tell a person's ethinicity (is she from HK/JPN/Korean/etc).

lovelessemotion wrote:

a girl from college i know (she is half japanese and half white) told me that when she visits her mom in hawaii its ok if she says "wow look at that oriental plate" but its not ok to say "wow look at that oriental person" so she tought me that 'oriental' its ok if u refer to antiques or furniture and stuff.. but its not ok to refer to ppl or a race as that...? is that correct?

That's what I found out too last year...before that I have always referred east asians like Chinese, Japanese and Koreans as orientals...then I found out it's derogatory and I'm Chinese too...

If you think about it, the opposite of oriental is occidental and yet we never call people from European countries as occidentals, so actually it doesn't make sense that people from east asia are called orientals.

I too feel highly offended by the use of the word "Jap"
because when I was growing up kids would always call me a jap and a savage for my being half japanese and half Native American.
So I guess I protest to the word JAP.
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samsung wrote:

my friends think it sounds racist but i do call them japs sorry if i offended anyone

Been awhile since I've visited this thread.
But if your friends don't like being called Japs, why do you call them that?
I'm not offended at all by the term, but this act just shows that you've no respect for your friends whatsoever.
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When i hear the term "jap" it reminds me of pearl harbor for some reason and stuff like that....I know i would find it offensive if i was japanese..
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Mr.ChoyBoi wrote:

When i hear the term "jap" it reminds me of pearl harbor for some reason and stuff like that....I know i would find it offensive if i was japanese..

I think it reminds you of PH 'cause of the relevance to WWII and all. I haven't seen that movie. Was it any good? (I hate Ben Affleck films)
It's weird 'cause I'm Japanese but I don't find being called a Jap offensive at all. But after all, I don't get offended very easily. But I can understand how it feels when you do take it offensively 'cause my Japanese friends here find it offensive.
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ugh. i dont like ben affleck either, i only watched that cuz josh hartnett was there
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MixxDreamer wrote:

ugh. i dont like ben affleck either, i only watched that cuz josh hartnett was there

What movie was that?


Yeah, the Bennifer thing sucked royal @$$. But "Jello" is so hot! (IMO)
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what movie? oh thought u guys are still talking about pearl harbor
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MixxDreamer wrote:

ugh. i dont like ben affleck either, i only watched that cuz josh hartnett was there

I didn't see it in theaters. Instead, I was invited to the premiere showing of the movie they hosted on the USS Missouri based out at Pearl Harbor. For you who don't know, the USS Missouri (also known as the "Mighty Mo") is where Emperor Hirohito and General McArthur signed the treaty ending WWII. So having the Mighty Mo in the same harbor as the USS Arizona is very, very symbolic, seeing they mark the start and end of WWII for the United States.

Back to the event... It was quite the experience! I got to see all the major stars of the movie, President Bush Sr., Hawaii Governor Cayetano and all the Hawaii US Senators and Congressmen, all the big-wigs in the US Navy, and even ran into Jennifer Love Hewitt (why she was there I don't know - maybe she misses Hawaii).

--- groink

MixxDreamer wrote:

what movie? oh thought u guys are still talking about pearl harbor

Oh, you see. I haven't even seen that movie which is why I didn't know that you were talking about it!



@groink: The USS Missouri site is pretty close to your house if I'm not mistaken? 10 minute drive?
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ahochaude wrote:

@groink: The USS Missouri site is pretty close to your house if I'm not mistaken? 10 minute drive?

Just about 10 minutes. My working place is even closer, about a few hundred yards away. The next time you're on the H-1 freeway heading towards the airport, keep in mind of the area where you're driving over Stadium Mall. At that point, if you look to your right, you'll see K-Mart and Sack-n-Save. Then up the hill right immediately after that, you'll see a tower with a huge bumble bee on top. That's my building! The bumble bee is the mascot of the US Navy's engineering division, which their nickname is the "sea bees".

--- groink

groink wrote:

Just about 10 minutes. My working place is even closer, about a few hundred yards away. The next time you're on the H-1 freeway heading towards the airport, keep in mind of the area where you're driving over Stadium Mall. At that point, if you look to your right, you'll see K-Mart and Sack-n-Save. Then up the hill right immediately after that, you'll see a tower with a huge bumble bee on top. That's my building! The bumble bee is the mascot of the US Navy's engineering division, which their nickname is the "sea bees".

I think I've seen that building! hehehe. I think it's cool, that bumble bee, I mean. You're lucky to live so close to work. I have a commute and I just take the bus. From Waipahu (Waipio Gentry rather, but same zip code) to Downtown. Beats driving. (That extra sleep you can get on the bus, unbeatable than any commute!)
I've never been to the USS Missouri site at all. Been meaning to go, but I always seem to blow it off for some reason. Lazy, I guess.
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It's kind of an odd thing, but if I were to call myself Jap or if one of my Japanese friends called me that I would not be offended because I know their intentions are not to offend or hate. But a couple of times I've been called Jap by random people and I know that it was because of their dislike of Japanese people. So I guess it's all a matter of the situation in which it's being used.

Hirari Chan wrote:

It's kind of an odd thing, but if I were to call myself Jap or if one of my Japanese friends called me that I would not be offended because I know their intentions are not to offend or hate. But a couple of times I've been called Jap by random people and I know that it was because of their dislike of Japanese people. So I guess it's all a matter of the situation in which it's being used.

Sounds like a double standard to me.

Either it's wrong or it's not. When it starts becoming a "they can say that, but those guys? Those folks over there? THOSE folk cannot say that," certain issues of credibility get called into question, obviously.

The Man wrote:

Sounds like a double standard to me.

It is a double standard. And I can't stand that!

The Man wrote:

Either it's wrong or it's not.

Yes, Indeed. Either right or wrong. There is no in between.

You're a very smart guy, The Man!

Exactly how I feel on this issue!
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The Man wrote:

Sounds like a double standard to me. Either it's wrong or it's not. When it starts becoming a "they can say that, but those guys? Those folks over there? THOSE folk cannot say that," certain issues of credibility get called into question, obviously.

Hmm, so if your wife could call you "fluffy pumpkin" then it would also be OK for your dentist to do so?

Who says something is relevant to how it is received.

PaulTB wrote:

Hmm, so if your wife could call you "fluffy pumpkin" then it would also be OK for your dentist to do so? Who says something is relevant to how it is received.

the difference, of course, she would say "my sweet fluffy pumpkin..." LOL!
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