hey everyone.
so i know in english its subject. verb. object
then japanese is subject. object. verb

but i am still having trouble with the order of japanese words.
ive been trying to put sentences together but don't know what to say first and so on.

for example:
i am writing a letter to you.
how would the order be? when you have more than one pro noun, what goes first?

how would the order be for.

"how come you are not playing with her?"

it's all this and more. i'm just confused @_@


if anyone can help. Please do! thanks

well give us an idea of how you think it should be... i would like to know how you are going about it because i have the same problums too.... o and sorry i couldnt help but now that i have seen this i would like to know too .....

supersumoCG wrote:

for example: i am writing a letter to you. how would the order be? when you have more than one pro noun, what goes first?

anata ni tegami o kaite iru (lit. to you a letter (I) am writing)

Generally, the subject you want to emphasize goes first. But also remember that pronouns generally not needed, unless you need/want to specify exactly who is doing what. In addition, you shouldn't use pronouns like watashi/anata/etc., too often.

Quote:

how would the order be for. "how come you are not playing with her?"

kanojo de asobanakute iru doshite? (lit. with her (you) are not playing why?)

Quote:

it's all this and more. i'm just confused @_@ if anyone can help. Please do! thanks

Hopefully this helps.

John.

yeah, the first one's right : anata ni tegami wo kaite iru/imasu. but you can also switch it around and say: tegami wo anata ni kaite imasu [letter to you [i am] writing] switch the anata[subject]
but the second one: instead of "kanojo de asobanakute iru doshite? (lit. with her (you) are not playing why?)"
it would be: Doshite kanojo to asonde inai?/ doshite kanojo to asonde imasen desu ka? [lit. why with her (you) playing aren't]/OR you can switch the doshite and say "kanojo to doshite asonde imasen desu ka?"

if you want to say, "where are you going with her?" it would be: Kanojo to doko ni ikun desu ka? [lit. with her where[are you] to go?"/ doko ni kanojo to ikun desu ka?
i think. correct me if i'm wrong.

shmigol wrote:

yeah, the first one's right : anata ni tegami wo kaite iru/imasu. but you can also switch it around and say: tegami wo anata ni kaite imasu [letter to you [i am] writing] switch the anata[subject] but the second one: instead of "kanojo de asobanakute iru doshite? (lit. with her (you) are not playing why?)" it would be: Doshite kanojo to asonde inai?/ doshite kanojo to asonde imasen desu ka? [lit. why with her (you) playing aren't]/OR you can switch the doshite and say "kanojo to doshite asonde imasen desu ka?" if you want to say, "where are you going with her?" it would be: Kanojo to doko ni ikun desu ka? [lit. with her where[are you] to go?"/ doko ni kanojo to ikun desu ka? i think. correct me if i'm wrong.

Well, it probably should be

kanojo to issho ni doko e/ni ikun desu ka

but, I could be wrong, too .

John.

yeah, that works, but issho means together--so that would translate to where are you going together with her? so many variations

In that case, I would say it without the "isshoni" because it is already implied with the "kanojo to." But either way would work.

supersumoCG wrote:

for example: i am writing a letter to you. how would the order be? when you have more than one pro noun, what goes first? how would the order be for. "how come you are not playing with her?"

words in () can be ommited.
the first would be in the order, "(I am) you to a letter writing."
in japanese, "(watashi wa) kimi ni tegami wo kaiteimasu."

the second would be in the order, "(you are) why her with not playing?"
in japanese, "(kimi wa) doushite kanojo to asondeimasen ka?"

That's how I would do it, but I am FAR from being fluent.

agatsuma: how i am going about it? that's a hard question to explain... well, like i said, english: sov. japanese: sov. But while trying to put sentences together for practice, there are words that go beyond the order of sov. like adverbs, more than one pronoun for the subject, adjectives, ect. So what i am looking for is someone to explain to me the structure of a sentence in japanese beyond sov. because without sentence order "Like english this would speaking in we."<- (we would be speaking like this in english) and i don't want to be speaking japanese like that.


JohnAD & Shmigol:

for both of the sentences, this is what i tried to translate it into.

i am writing a letter to you:
atashi wa anata ni tegami o koku

how come you are not playing with her? (i dont know how to say with):
doshite anata wa kanojo (something...) asobimasen desu ka

shmigol you said:

anata ni tegami wo kaite iru/imasu. but you can also switch it around and say: tegami wo anata ni kaite imasu [letter to you [i am] writing] switch the anata[subject]

then does that mean it can be osv too? or were you just making the letter the subject instead.
but from reading both of your translation i think i kinda get it. in all of the translations, the verb always stayed last. so if i were to say something like "i am writing a letter to her and talking on the phone to you."

would it be:
tegami o anta ni kaita imasu soshite phone de anta ni hanashimasu.

the verb would always be last no matter what? verb order i'm ok with, the stuff in between are the tricky stuff for me.



Nismo!!

i like how you did "(I am) you to a letter writing." that. Because by seeing the english sentence in japanese order, it made it easier to interpret or understand how to write it in japanese. very interesting.

Thank you everyone!! for your help. i am still a bit wavy on this subject. but your translations and help made it alot clearer for me. if you ever have anything to add in the future that might help me and anyone else with this, please do! thank you again

cool so many good ideas and thank you for your responce to me and this question i learnd a lot

You have good responses but i will share something I have discovered, Instead of trying to translate english into Japanese (which is really hard and slow) try to format a part of your brain and stick your japanese in there. right now it's really small, only a few words and sentences. But if you learn the "japanese" way of saying things, and respond from the japanese part of your brain your responses will be immediate and mostly correct. After forcing yourself into this habit for awhile it gets easier to add phrases.

of course you still have to study, but trying to learn particles and grammer is largly unproductive, 2 year olds don't learn grammer, they just respond in copied sentences they have heard. We are not so different.
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Quote:

for both of the sentences, this is what i tried to translate it into. i am writing a letter to you: atashi wa anata ni tegami o koku

You probably would have wanted to use watashi, rather than atashi (unless you're female). In any case, you generally don't need to use watashi/atashi/boku/etc., unless you want to emphasize "I". Otherwise, it will be understood from context.

Quote:

how come you are not playing with her? (i dont know how to say with): doshite anata wa kanojo (something...) asobimasen desu ka

You'll probably not want to use 'anata' in this sentence. 'Anata' is very direct, and may be more rude than you want to be. This isn't always the case, but you should be careful. As with watashi, "you" can be understood from context. Also asobimasen is 'don't play', not 'not playing'. You want to use the -Te form or -Te + iru/imasu to form an -ing action.

Quote:

but from reading both of your translation i think i kinda get it. in all of the translations, the verb always stayed last. so if i were to say something like "i am writing a letter to her and talking on the phone to you." would it be: tegami o anta ni kaita imasu soshite phone de anta ni hanashimasu. the verb would always be last no matter what? verb order i'm ok with, the stuff in between are the tricky stuff for me.

Verbs are generally last, although they can be in subordinate clauses in the middle of a sentence:

kyou wa koen o itte sukoshi asobu (today (I) will go to the park and play a little)

John.

Andocrates wrote:

.. try to format a part of your brain and stick your japanese in there. ....

C:\chkdsk -format -vBRAIN:
C:\formatting .......
C:\ERROR: BRAIN: is faulty media - insufficient space.
C:\ERROR: All information on BRAIN: will be lost.
C:\ERROR: Please aquire a new BRAIN: and try again.

Did you mean a physical or logical partition?

My head hurts now and I don't remember my name....

I would use the verb yaru myself for "how come you are not playing with her" (although it can be taken the wrong way hehe). Something
like �Ȃ�Ŕޏ��Ƃ���ĂȂ��@�inande kanojyo to yattenai).

Most Japanese speakers don't include the i in the verb iru after the ~te form verb..�itabeteru, tabetenai�@e�����B�B�j
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ajb_advance wrote:

C:\chkdsk -format -vBRAIN: C:\formatting ....... C:\ERROR: BRAIN: is faulty media - insufficient space. C:\ERROR: All information on BRAIN: will be lost. C:\ERROR: Please aquire a new BRAIN: and try again. Did you mean a physical or logical partition? My head hurts now and I don't remember my name....

OK, didn't know you were a geek, new analogy. Just respond in japanese without thinking. It helps me to say as many Japanese things as I can possibly remember right before a dialougue session (which really does hurt your brain) then I try not to think in english, just japanese, if I get corrected while in Japanese thinking mode, it makes a bigger impression. Sometimes I come up with stupid (but funny to Japanese) sayings. The Japanese brain is so molded to think one way it's "cute" when a westerner voices western thoughts in japanese. (P.S. if the thought of being a cute westerner bothers you quit studing now, because no matter how good you get you will get laughed at)
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Urluzers wrote:

I would use the verb yaru myself for "how come you are not playing with her" (although it can be taken the wrong way hehe). Something like �Ȃ�Ŕޏ��Ƃ���ĂȂ��@�inande kanojyo to yattenai). Most Japanese speakers don't include the i in the verb iru after the ~te form verb..�itabeteru, tabetenai�@e�����B�B�j

yaru means "to do". 'nande kanojo to yattenai" would mean "why aren't you doing it with her" which definitely isn't close to "why aren't you playing with her"------and it can get dangerous if you use "yaru" when you only are talking about "playing"

I did say it could be dangerous hehe. The verbs ���� and ��� are used in this situation more than ������. I know if you plug in "to play" in a dictionary you will probably get ������, but it's simply used more for describing free or idle time in Japanese. I guess just play in that case I would use ������ since it would be taken wrong...but....

Go up to a Japanese person playing soccer and say �T�b�J�[��������ł���HIf nothing else you'll get a grin or laugh.
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Also asobimasen is 'don't play', not 'not playing'. You want to use the -Te form or -Te + iru/imasu to form an -ing action.

could you explain to me why using the negative form of te would mean not playing? and, to form an -ing action, you always use a te form + iru/imasu, no other form?


gah... i came up with another question about word order but forgot it... >_< gotta remember it.

Urluzers wrote:

Go up to a Japanese person playing soccer and say �T�b�J�[��������ł���HIf nothing else you'll get a grin or laugh.

since i am a japanese person myself, i know that in that way, yaru of course is what you would use instead of asobu. i would laugh my head off if someone said to me, "soccer wo asonde iru?"

haha I guess you don't have to go too far to ask that then
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