dochira wrote:

It all depends. I think kokuou and supermidget might be able to shed some light on this. I rarely see "minna" written as a kanji. In fact I had to look it up. As far as "dare", I've seen it both ways. It might have to do with emphasizing some words. Not sure.

No, writing everything in hiragana would cause text to look like a children's book and be very difficult to read.

Of course, when a Japanese person can't remember a kanji, they will substitute it for hiragana, but most of the time, the majority of nouns, verb stems, adjective stems, etc. are all written in kanji.

HTH,

������
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"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

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hptm wrote:

say "who" ,they sometimes use "����"(dare),but in other sometimes,they use"�@�N�@"(dare) say "every one", they also use "�݂��"(min na)or "�F"(mina). Which is true?or is the same mean?or has some difference? I questioned again who can ask me.

1.
First of all, Japanese usage of Chinese character is different from Chinese and Korean usage.
About 3 times, Japan imported Chinese words that consisted of Chinese characters.
Then some Chinese character has 3 sounds or more sounds from ancient Chinese.
And in Japan, Chinese characters have also the sound from Japanese word.
For example, flower is Hana in Japanese. Then �� has also the sound �gHana�h. Of course Chinese character in China doesn�ft have this sound.
In Japanese language, a lot of word classes conjugate. At this case, Chinese character in Japanese has the sound of stem of Japanese word. For example Ikiru means �glive�h, and uninflected part of stem is �gi�h ( I-kiru ). Then �� in Japanese have the sound �gi�h and more, because one Chinese character doesn�ft have only one meaning in Japanese.
I only want to say Chinese character in Japan has a lot of sounds from Ancient China and Japanese.

2. �N and ����@�i�@�gDare�h�@�j
You can choose both�c.

Usually in ordinary sentence, �N is major. If you only uses phonograms, it is very hard to read and understand.

But you think the sound is very important for example in dialog.
We may use �g����h ,�g������h, �g���[��h , �g���E���E��h and �g���ꂥ�h. If you are good at Hiragana, you can phonate many type of �gDARE�h�c Please enjoy.

3. �݂�, �݂�� and �F
�F has both sound �g�݂ȁh(mina) and �g�݂�ȁh( minna ).
You can choose both spellings. There is the tendency that when we use �g�F�h, Firstly we imagine the sound �g�݂ȁh.

Mina is a little older word than Min�fna.

And Min�fna is able to use to call a lot of people around you�@(Hey! guys!! ), but Mina in this usage is older.
( cf. �搶"sensei"vs���t"kyoushi"�@/ if you want to call your teacher in the street or class room, only you can use "sensei" )

But Mina-San( San is compellation. �gLadies and Gentlemen�h ) is correct. Min�fna-San is incorrect.

And Min�fna and Mina is also used as adverb�c. ( You destroyed �gall�h toys. )


Sorry, my poor English.

snowmackerel wrote:

First of all, Japanese usage of Chinese character is different from Chinese and Korean usage.

Koreans don't use kanji in normal everyday language. Or that I'm aware of at least.
If they do, please enlighten me.
I know that there a many (Koreans) who are able to read Japanese Kanji/Chinese characters as a result of events past, but to my knowledge, that writing system is not used in Korea today.
They (Koreans) have their own writing system which is totally different than kanji.
Am I wrong?

snowmackerel wrote:

Sorry, my poor English.

i'm poor English too,because i'm Chinese.
some times i read Japanese,i can understand some mean for hanji.for example:
谁=�N�@�@��=樱 爱=��.
some of it is the same mean,but some is not.
example:
�搶=teacher(in Japanese) =Mr(in Chinese)
i'm nice to talk with you in English.
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ahochaude wrote:

Koreans don't use kanji in normal everyday language. Or that I'm aware of at least. If they do, please enlighten me. I know that there a many (Koreans) who are able to read Japanese Kanji/Chinese characters as a result of events past, but to my knowledge, that writing system is not used in Korea today. They (Koreans) have their own writing system which is totally different than kanji. Am I wrong?

Several decades ago, they used Chinese characters.
And before the age of Lee dynasty, they mainly used Chinese language for documents.

They once stopped using Chinese characters.
By that result, they couldn't read Korean news paper even 20 years ago, and almost every documents published in Korea...

Then now they seem to study Chinese characters.
Usually their family name and first name consist of Chinese characters.
But when they write ordinary document, I guess they dont use Chinese characters.


if my understanding is incorrect, please teach me.....

hptm wrote:

i'm poor English too,because i'm Chinese. some times i read Japanese,i can understand some mean for hanji.for example: 谁=�N�@�@��=樱 爱=��. some of it is the same mean,but some is not. example: �搶=teacher(in Japanese) =Mr(in Chinese) i'm nice to talk with you in English.

I am Japanese.
I had been in North East China about 1 month.
I didn't know Chinese language.
But I wrote Chinese characters on my notebook and there was no problem to enjoy my journey.

Hi.May i know what does the "de" means when it is used at the back of the sentence?I always heard it on Japanese TV show but i have no idea what it means.Example:

1)....,yume mitai de
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hiroshi_ben wrote:

Hi.May i know what does the "de" means when it is used at the back of the sentence?I always heard it on Japanese TV show but i have no idea what it means.Example: 1)....,yume mitai de

i'm too.i heard it on Japanese cartoon.i think it is a interjection for emphasizing the sentence's importance or show the strong heart.in China,we use "啊".
example:
���߂Ȃ��� (akirame na i de) =don't give up!!!
���̂܂܁C��l�� (kono mama,futari de)=like this,two person's world!!!
�������� (ureshiku de)=very happy!!!
my bad English
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hello! haven't been here for a while. supermidget, thank you so much for the last explanation i come up with new questions now

i still can't figure out what function "-chau" does in a sentence. found this in Hide's "Genkai Haretsu" : "mamotte agenakucha kowarechau kara".
what function does this "-chau" make? and what's the function of that "-cha" after "agenaku-"?
i found another lyric from Clavier's "Yozora Ni Saku Hana" (i wonder if the title means the same as 'Hanabi'? ^_^v) : "...honto wa totemo terechatte" and i think "terechatte" comes from "terechau" and that means "-chau" can be changed into present form. is it correct or did i figure it out wrong?

i can't find "senritsu" and "ajisai" in my dictionary. what do they mean?

also, i heard a lot of "...na no sa" in song lyrics but i don't understand what the function is. help??

thanks before.. sorry if i have too many question

kurokage wrote:

i can't find "senritsu" and "ajisai" in my dictionary. what do they mean?

senritsu means shudder. not sure for the kanji on this one..
also means ���� Melody...
and i think ajisai ���z�� is a flower. Hydrangea...
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Tiffany <3

1. �}�b�V�����[���L���b�g�i���o�[�v���[�g
2. �u�|�r�[�ƃf�B���K���v
3. ����̉���

how about it? how to say these words and what does it mean?
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hptm wrote:

i'm too.i heard it on Japanese cartoon.i think it is a interjection for emphasizing the sentence's importance or show the strong heart.in China,we use "啊". example: ���߂Ȃ��� (akirame na i de) =don't give up!!! ���̂܂܁C��l�� (kono mama,futari de)=like this,two person's world!!! �������� (ureshiku de)=very happy!!! my bad English

hmm thanks for helping~but i guess the first two "de" which u had explained are different from the "de" which i wanna know~cuz they are the particle and "nai" command form~but thanks anyway!
_________________

In Ayu fairyland!!

kurokage wrote:

hello! haven't been here for a while. supermidget, thank you so much for the last explanation i come up with new questions now i still can't figure out what function "-chau" does in a sentence. found this in Hide's "Genkai Haretsu" : "mamotte agenakucha kowarechau kara". what function does this "-chau" make? and what's the function of that "-cha" after "agenaku-"?

Chau is an informal extension/version of masu, in most cases.
-as if in it will.

ie: �H�ׂ��Ⴄ�@= tabechau = (I) will eat (it)
ie (past tense form): �H�ׂ�������@= tabechatta = (I) ate (it)
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ahochaude wrote:

Chau is an informal extension/version of masu, in most cases. -as if in it will. ie: �H�ׂ��Ⴄ�@= tabechau = (I) will eat (it) ie (past tense form): �H�ׂ�������@= tabechatta = (I) ate (it)

Actually, ���Ⴄ is a reduced version of

Verb + �� + ���܂�

so, �H�ׂ��Ⴄ means the same thing as �H�ׂĂ��܂�.
While the translation doesn't change, �H�ׂ� and �H�ׂ������ have two quite different underlying meanings.

Sorry aho I totally didn't mean to take over your explanation!

As for the OP's other question, the -cha ending in words like:

�H�ׂȂ����� (tabenakucha)

is also a contraction of

�� + ��

meaning, "to have to."

I.e.:

�H�ׂȂ����� = (I) have to eat.

HTH,

������
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

kokuou wrote:

Sorry aho I totally didn't mean to take over your explanation!

No problem.
You always explain things a lot better than I do. I cannot get down to the exact literal translation as you do.
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a-nesuto, ahochaude and kokuou, Thank you guys so much for the explanation!! even my grammar book can't explain me these you guys did

to k-role, my katakana isn't so good but i'll try to help..
1. �}�b�V�����[���L���b�g�i���o�[�v���[�g
2. �u�|�r�[�ƃf�B���K���v
3. ����̉���

for no. 1 i think it's Mushroom ( �}�b�V�����[��) something.. i'm not sure about the rest of it
2. pobi-todingan.. i guess.. or something like that but i don't know what it means..
3. Hoshizora no shita de.. means under the starry sky

someone, please correct me if i'm wrong

Please don't use the term "jap" :x

Quote:

ok and when do u use sou suru to, sore kara, sono tsuki, soshite and why in some instances they are not interchangeable coz in my japanese diary entry, my teacher said that i had to use soshite instead of sorekara but i cant remember why so yeah...

sou suru to is the very polite form of sore kara.[/list]

Quote:

ok and when do u use sou suru to, sore kara, sono tsuki, soshite and why in some instances they are not interchangeable coz in my japanese diary entry, my teacher said that i had to use soshite instead of sorekara but i cant remember why so yeah...

Quote:

sou suru to is the very polite form of sore kara.[/list]

Uhh... no it isn't.

���ꂩ�� (sorekara) means, "and (then)" or "in addition (or also)."

��������� (sou suru to) means, "if (you) do that."

Yes, they can mean similar things in certain contexts, but by no means is ��������� the "polite" form of ���ꂩ��.
If you are going to give advice, please make sure that you know 100% what you are talking about before you do so as it will only confuse others.

������

PS: I'm moving this thread to the "Japanese Language Questions" thread.
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

Hi everybody! I'm soooo sorry for having been away for like a month or so? I somehow didn't get any topic reply notification mails anymore and just didn't realize by myself there might've been posts in the meanwhile. Anyway...

Hello snowmackerel, hiroshi_ben and 你�Dhptm! Belated welcome to the forums! Nice to meet you ^_^

hiroshi_ben wrote:

Hi.May i know what does the "de" means when it is used at the back of the sentence?I always heard it on Japanese TV show but i have no idea what it means.Example: 1)....,yume mitai de

In this case, �� de is the continuative form of �� da ~ "to be" (copula). This form has some functions:

* joining two sentences... translating as "and"
* making a cause/effect relation between two sentences. Translating as "because..." "due to..."
* two things happen at the same time or sequentially


Ending a sentence in a so called 'te-form' (continuative) is not a full grammatical sentence, and in speech it implies something is to follow, though one has to guess the precise connection. It is also possible that someone "forgot" to specify some cause/effect and puts it in afterwards instead.

�r�[�������������������B�@biiru wo nonde yocchatta ~ "Because I drank beer, I got so drunk."

Could in speech become:

�������������I�@�r�[���i���j����ŁE�E�E yocchatta yo! biiru (wo) nonde... ~ "I got so drunk you know! by drinking beer..."

-> Reversed sentence pattern.

�����������@yume mitai da ~ "It is like a dream"
���������Ł@yume mitai de ~ "It being like a dream..."

Just think anything afterwards.

hptm wrote:

���߂Ȃ��� (akirame na i de) =don't give up!!!

This is also continuative form, though negative in this case. Normally the nagative continuative form would be �Ȃ��� nakute, but in combination with (for example) ������ kudasai ~ "please do ... for me", a slightly different form is used, namely �Ȃ��� naide.

���߂Ȃ��@�@�@�@�@�@�@akiramenai ~ "I won't give up"
���߂Ȃ��ʼn������@akiramenaide kudasai ~ "Please don't give up!"

The message is usually understood without ������ kudasai though, so it's often omitted in speech. Oh as a second, this negative continuative form is also used translating as "without doing..." so:

���߂Ȃ��Ł@akiramenaide ~ "Without giving up...." or "Don't give up!"

Quote:

���̂܂܁C��l�� (kono mama,futari de)=like this,two person's world!!!

I would personally translate this as "Like this, with the two of us..." (litterally: In this way, being two persons...). Though it may sound romantic in the same way it does in Japanese, there's not something like world in this sentence.

The �� de at the end is again the continuative form of �� da.

I think most important is the fact that the �� te-form will sometimes end in �� de and other times in �� te, depending on the verb and in cases of negatives on its use. The particle or case-marker �� de on the other hand is much more seldom. It is only used to mark locations where some activity happens or indicating some kind of "tool" (do something with), the others are all continuative forms, as far as I can think of now.

Quote:

�������� (ureshiku de)=very happy!!!

As far as my experience counts, this is grammatically incorrect. Sure thing is that �� de doesn't mean "very" at all. It is never used as a way to make the emotion of the message stronger.

To Hptm... I don't know so much about Chinese though, but if 啊 is used for emphasis, I think in Japanese that would be �� yo�B

�ɂ݂�@itami yo ~ "What pain!" (emph. of "pain!")

kurokage wrote:

...honto wa totemo terechatte" and i think "terechatte" comes from "terechau" and that means "-chau" can be changed into present form. is it correct or did i figure it out wrong? i can't find "senritsu" and "ajisai" in my dictionary. what do they mean? also, i heard a lot of "...na no sa" in song lyrics but i don't understand what the function is. help??

When "reverse engineering" �Ƃꂿ����� terechatte:

�Ƃꂿ����ā@�E�@�Ƃꂿ�Ⴄ�@�E�@�Ƃ�Ă��܂��@�E�@�Ƃ��
terechatte > terechau > terete shimau > tereru

Kokuou has already explained this actually but as a small addition:
The "-chau" for is already present, in the sense that it is not PAST tense. As you know the "present" form in Japanese can also indicate the FUTURE tense. I thought you might have ment to change the verb into the "dictionary" form - usually rentaikei. The sentence means:

�{���͏Ƃꂿ����ā@hontou ha terechatte ~ "(but) in fact, getting shy"

Once more, the continuative form.


Okay I'm really tired now So hope this helped you... I'll try checking the forums more often again... If there's any mistakes in my post please correct / comment. Thanks ^_^
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